Ep. 32: Culty Work Environment vs. Company Culture: What's the Difference
It Was Genuinely Brainwashing
You hear it all the time. Ugh, such a culty place to work. Most people say it as a joke. One of us was not joking. A big corporate job, a product she actually loved, and somewhere along the way her autonomy got stripped down piece by piece until she didn't recognize how she talked, thought, or acted anymore.
That's the difference between a strong culture and a cult. One shapes how you work together. The other reshapes who you are.
How Much Say Should a Job Have Over Who You Are?
Zero. You can align with the mission. You can respect the values. But the second a workplace starts dictating your personality outside the actual job, that's not culture, that's control.
The only thing a company gets to ask of you is your attitude while you're there. Show up, don't dump your bad day on everyone, do the work. That's it. Everything else, how you talk, how you think, who you are when you clock out, is not theirs to touch.
The Personality Test That Got Used as a Weapon
It started innocent. An Enneagram test on day one, the fun "let's get to know each other" kind. She scored an 8, the entrepreneurial, hard to control type. Cute at first. Then every time she pushed back on something, that same personality trait got quietly weaponized against her.
That's the tell. Handing over your whole self during onboarding and having it used to manage you later isn't culture building. It's data collection.
"Let's 24 It" Was Doing a Lot of Damage
Communication is everything, and this place had a rule for it: anything you wanted to talk about got a mandatory 24 hour cooldown. Doesn't matter if it was already sitting with you for a week. Doesn't matter if it was as small as your desk being messy. The clock started the second you brought it up.
The 24 hour rule isn't a bad idea when it's optional, when you're the one who needs the space. Forced onto every single conversation, it just becomes 24 hours of anxiety over nothing.
There Was a Crying Room
An actual room, for actual crying. Used it once, mostly to nap. Sounds harmless until you sit with what it's really saying: emotional regulation isn't expected here, it's routed to a designated space instead. Cry in your bed. Leave it out of the building.
Vet Them Before They Vet You
Every hire is a two way interview. The company should be checking you against their core values. You should be doing the exact same thing back, out loud, in the interview. What's your culture actually like? What do you swear by, literally and figuratively?
If a place is being honest with you about how blunt, direct, or unpolished it is, you get to decide right there whether that's your speed. That transparency up front is what separates a real culture from one you find out about the hard way.
Core Values Shouldn't Be a List of Ten
If your business has ten core values, you don't have core values, you have a brainstorm that never got cut down. Pick three. Make them non-negotiable. If everyone's aligned on those three, the rest sorts itself out.
And know your own three before you walk into any interview. You can't clock a misalignment with a company if you never defined what you personally won't compromise on.
Stop Writing Values Like a Brochure
"Quality." "Integrity." "Transparency." Every company says this. It means nothing because it costs nothing to say.
Values should sound like the people who actually work there talk. Instead of transparency, say no bullshit, if that's genuinely how your team communicates. It's not about swearing for the sake of it, it's about writing values in the actual language of your culture so people can self-select in or out before day one.
The Rules Should Never Be a Surprise
Here's the real test: did you find out the expectation before you crossed it, or after? If a company clearly tells you upfront what they expect and you don't follow it, that's on you. If you find out only after getting quietly corrected for something nobody ever named, that's on them.
Hidden rules that only reveal themselves through punishment aren't culture. They're a trap you agreed to without knowing it.
Great Work, Bad Fit. Whose Problem Is That?
Honestly, both. If you're doing good work and still getting treated like an outsider, the company should have the guts to pull you aside and say it's not working instead of dragging it out for a season. And you should be self-aware enough to recognize misalignment instead of blaming everyone else for it.
Neither side benefits from stretching out a bad fit. Rip the bandaid.
The "We're So Open and Inclusive" Red Flag
Notice how the workplaces that push inclusivity and openness the hardest, right from the jump, are so often the most toxic ones underneath? That's not a coincidence.
Those places usually confuse "no one gets offended" with "no one ever gets to disagree." Which means everyone censors themselves down to nothing, which breeds way more resentment than just letting people be honest ever would.
The 8-Point Cult Checklist
This is the actual checklist psychologists use, rooted in Robert Lifton's work on thought reform. Most workplaces will hit one or two of these, because running a business requires some structure. Hit six, seven, eight, and you're not in a culture anymore.
They control the conversation and shut down anything that doesn't match the party line.
They present themselves as more than a job, usually with the "we're a family" pitch.
You never feel fully accepted, always one wrong opinion from being suspect.
They collect your whole self during onboarding, then use it against you.
Their values can't be questioned without it being turned into a problem with you.
New ideas end conversations instead of opening them.
Loyalty to belief matters more than the actual quality of your work.
And if you leave, you're framed as the one who failed, not the fit that failed.
Find the Place Where You Don't Have to Perform
Once you're actually in the right culture, work stops feeling like a costume. You crack jokes and people get them instead of side eyeing you. You disagree and it opens a conversation instead of ending one. You stop performing a version of yourself just to survive the building.
If you're currently tiptoeing, censoring, or slowly turning into someone you don't recognize just to keep a paycheck, that's your answer. There are other options. Stop wasting your life on a job that needed you to disappear to keep it.
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(0:00) I have something to talk about. (0:03) Is it whether or not you worked for a cult? (0:05) Yes, correct. (0:07) How did I know? (0:09) Yeah, I think, um, you hear that, like, terminology from people all the time, (0:12) you know, like, ooh, super culty place to work or very culty environment, (0:16) whatever the case may be. (0:18) And I definitely have worked in some culty environments. (0:21) I don't know about you. (0:23) I feel like you've been able to build one from scratch. (0:25) Not a cult, but, you know, an actual culture. (0:27) I've been building a cult. (0:28) No, just kidding. (0:29) No, I've never worked for a cult. (0:31) But, uh, but I definitely know what you mean. (0:35) And I feel like it usually you hear it about corporations that are pretty big. (0:39) Yeah. (0:40) And in your case, that was also the case. (0:44) In my case, it was the case. (0:46) In your case, it was the case. (0:48) You were working for a large company when you felt like you were basically being fucking (0:53) drinking some brainwash. (0:55) Yeah, it was genuinely brainwashing. (0:58) Yeah. (0:58) And I think it was kind of hard for me to come to terms with afterwards. (1:02) But I noticed it once I was already, like, in the mix of working there, (1:06) slowly started noticing these little traits. (1:09) Yeah. (1:09) And I was like, is it me? (1:11) Am I the drama? (1:12) Or is it this fucking culty ass work environment? (1:15) Yeah. (1:16) And it was a large corporation, but I've also been involved in, like, network marketing. (1:19) And that's a totally different cult. (1:21) I felt like that cult, I could be myself. (1:24) But, like, just be obsessed with the brand. (1:27) No one could tell me this brand was, like, not the shit. (1:29) Yeah. (1:30) That's one thing. (1:30) Yeah. (1:31) But I was able to be me. (1:34) Whereas the corporation style cult, I, like, my autonomy was being stripped bit by bit. (1:40) I felt like I had to censor myself all the time. (1:42) And I don't know how many people have experienced that. (1:44) But I see it, I hear about it all the time. (1:46) And I question these things. (1:49) Yeah, we just want to talk about what the real difference is between an actual (1:53) work culture and where the line is crossed. (1:57) Yeah. (1:57) And when it actually becomes culty. (1:59) With that being said, how much influence do you feel like your workplace should have (2:04) over your own personal values? (2:06) Zero. (2:07) Yeah. (2:08) Like, you should align a little bit with who you're working for, for sure. (2:12) But I think that's on you to determine, right? (2:14) Yeah. (2:15) But I think in that case, like, I thought I would. (2:19) Like, the actual corporation itself, I love the product. (2:24) And I thought the work environment would reflect that. (2:27) And it did to a point. (2:29) But as things progressed, I started to realize, like, okay, the personality was not aligning. (2:35) And yeah, they should have no control over, like, who you are as a person on your own, (2:41) outside of the workplace, and how you operate personally at work. (2:45) How did that show up in that specific environment for you? (2:49) Like, what did you feel like were some examples of ways that now, looking back, you think that's, (2:54) like, toxic and they should never have that kind of influence over you? (2:58) Yeah, I think, well, from the jump, they make you do a personality test at this place, (3:02) which I am totally fine with. (3:04) Like, get to know each other, how everyone operates. (3:06) That's cool. (3:07) I don't know if anyone's done an Enneagram test before, but we did that. (3:10) And I actually loved it. (3:11) Learned a lot about myself. (3:12) But I was, like, one of the few people that was an 8 on the Enneagram. (3:18) And that's typically more, like, entrepreneurial and, like, (3:20) they're pretty hard to control, if you will. (3:23) So it was starting to become a thing where they would bring up the negative aspects of it. (3:29) Like, at first, like, oh, it's so good for XYZ. (3:31) But then it would be to my detriment when they would use it in certain scenarios. (3:37) And I also, just, like, little work isms. (3:41) Like, we had, like, phrases and things we said all the time. (3:43) And I started to notice I would use it in my day-to-day life. (3:46) And I'm like, whoa, that's fucking weird. (3:48) I don't even do that now. (3:50) And we have great core values. (3:51) I just don't use it in, like, my day-to-day verbiage. (3:54) So when I noticed that. (3:55) Well, and it's also just more of, like, it should kind of be a suggestion. (3:58) I don't know if it's the kind of thing where it's like, (3:59) oh, you're not allowed to say customer. (4:01) Like, that was one of the things you had brought up to me. (4:03) They weren't customers. (4:04) They were, um, what the fuck was it again? (4:06) I always forget. (4:07) Community members. (4:07) Community members. (4:09) Was that what it was? (4:10) I said a customer one time and it was, like, fucking not okay. (4:13) And I'm like, but it is a customer. (4:15) Yeah. (4:16) And I can kind of understand it from just, like, a business owner perspective (4:20) that you want your business ran in a certain way. (4:22) And maybe there's certain terms you don't want used (4:24) because they're more negative. (4:25) And you want people to stay positive. (4:28) But I think it should be very much more of, like, a suggestion or guideline. (4:31) And if somebody's really good at their job (4:34) and they're providing a great customer service experience, (4:36) like, what does it fucking matter? (4:39) This is my point. (4:40) Like, how granular can you get? (4:42) What do you think a company should be allowed to ask of their staff (4:48) that would affect, like, a personal aspect? (4:51) The only thing I think they could, you know, address, if you will, not control, (4:56) is your attitude. (4:57) Like, if you're showing up with a shitty attitude, like, check it at the door. (5:00) Like, don't bring that. (5:02) Don't dump it on everybody. (5:03) Like, that always pisses me off (5:05) when, like, someone projects their shitty attitude on me. (5:10) It doesn't matter what work environment. (5:11) I think that's the one thing that can be, again, addressed. (5:14) But it's not something that's, like, anything else should just be, (5:19) this is how we operate. (5:21) And, like, just be yourself within it and build with us. (5:24) Don't, like, change who you are to fit into the culture. (5:28) And I think, yeah, I started noticing that, like, little bit by bit. (5:32) I just, like, was genuinely altering who I was as a person in order to make it work. (5:37) And I think that a lot of people fall into that trap (5:39) because they don't want to be the outsider. (5:41) They don't want to feel like a failure. (5:43) That's a big one, right? (5:44) Because I am a fucking workaholic. (5:47) So, like, I would take on extra tasks, help out multiple departments. (5:51) And it's not like I didn't have good work ethic. (5:54) It's just they would find all these little things (5:56) where I didn't align on a personal level to, like, nitpick at. (6:00) And a big thing for me is communication, for sure. (6:03) And I think that should be, like, in any fucking business. (6:06) Communication's king. (6:08) And the way they did it, like, gag, honestly. (6:12) Because if someone tells me there's a problem, (6:13) let's talk, let's figure it out right now. (6:15) They would always be like, let's 24 it. (6:17) Like, they did it to everything. (6:19) And there's nothing wrong with the 24-hour rule. (6:20) We've talked about it before. (6:22) If you're super worked up or you want to reflect on something, (6:25) then yes, take 24 hours. (6:27) Like, don't just spill everything in the moment (6:29) when your emotions are all heightened. (6:31) But I think they would assume that (6:33) no matter what you wanted to talk about, (6:35) you can't talk about it for 24 hours. (6:37) But it's like, maybe you've already thought about it for 24 hours. (6:41) It was like, no, if you bring it up right now, (6:43) a 24-hour period starts right now. (6:46) No matter what it was. (6:47) It could be like your desk is dirty or something. (6:49) Like, I'm not that that ever happened. (6:50) It's just like, literally, it could be that sublime. (6:54) We need to have like a chat about X, Y, Z. (6:56) I'm like, okay, no problem. (6:57) They're like, but we'll 24 hour, we'll tomorrow. (6:59) So I'm like, for a whole 24 hours tweaking. (7:03) And it's like the anxiety over that. (7:06) And it ended up being like something very basic. (7:10) Or even if it was something big, (7:12) I think one time I got caught like literally texting at work. (7:16) And I'm like, I remember that conversation vividly. (7:18) I'm being like, okay, yeah, no problem. (7:19) We 24 hour this to say like, (7:21) hey, don't like use your phone during work hours. (7:23) Like that's okay. (7:25) Just tell me that off rip. (7:27) Yeah. (7:27) And didn't they have a crying room? (7:30) They did have a crying room. (7:32) I used it one time. (7:34) I literally only used it one time. (7:35) Not to say that's bad, (7:36) but it is an interesting cultural decision. (7:40) Like get emotional at work only in that room. (7:43) But also I'm like, I would never do that at work. (7:46) It was weird. (7:47) That is interesting. (7:48) I don't know how I feel about the crying room. (7:50) Tell us how you guys feel about the crying room. (7:52) It was fucking weird. (7:53) Would you guys want a crying room at your work? (7:55) Or do you have one? (7:56) And if so, do you use it? (7:58) Like that's kind of weird to me. (8:00) They thought I used it. (8:01) I genuinely used it to nap. (8:02) I feel like it encourages emotional behavior. (8:06) Instability in my opinion. (8:08) You don't know how to handle your emotions at work. (8:09) So there's the cry room. (8:10) I just feel like don't be crying at work. (8:12) Like leave that shit for after hours. (8:14) Cry in your bed. (8:15) Yeah. (8:15) We've said this before in previous episodes. (8:17) Anyway. (8:18) From me, it's like I'm being employed by this person perspective. (8:21) So like this is what I think. (8:23) But you as someone who's a business owner, (8:25) who's like put core values in place and like hires accordingly. (8:28) Yeah. (8:29) What do you think? (8:30) Is it like, should it actually be altering someone's personality? (8:34) Like what's going on? (8:35) It should all be vetted during the hiring process from both perspectives. (8:40) Okay. (8:40) Like I think the person hiring should absolutely be referencing core values (8:44) as they're hiring. (8:45) And I think that the person being hired should question, (8:48) what is the company's core values? (8:49) And what, how is it going to be? (8:51) Like, what's your culture like? (8:52) And I think that's a really great question for people to ask, (8:55) to really understand how it's going to be. (8:58) And I know when I personally interview people, (9:00) I'm always very open with them about the fact that like at our company, (9:03) we swear, we're very open with each other. (9:06) Like we get to the point, (9:08) like we definitely do not cater to people that are super soft (9:13) or can't handle kind of more direct directness (9:17) when it comes to communication. (9:19) Not to say that there's anything wrong with that, (9:21) but it's just, I want to be as transparent as possible (9:24) with somebody that's potentially going to come and work here (9:26) that that's what you're going to get. (9:28) Yeah. (9:28) Like if that's my biggest tip as someone who was involved in a cult, (9:32) ask that question off the bat when you're interviewing. (9:36) But of course, it's not always possible to find out (9:40) how aligned someone will be (9:42) until you see them in their day-to-day work environment. (9:45) And I think that also goes for the workplace as well. (9:48) Like I could tell you all of these things (9:50) and you could think I'm fine with it, (9:51) but until you're experiencing it firsthand. (9:54) And so you might find yourself in a situation (9:56) where now you've hired somebody that fucking sucks, (9:59) like they're not aligning (10:00) or you're somebody that was hired somewhere (10:02) and you were so excited and have these amazing expectations. (10:05) And now you're finding yourself having to tiptoe (10:07) or not say certain things or you're scared (10:09) or you don't understand what the expectations are. (10:12) And for me, all of that, again, just comes back to communication (10:16) and you should never feel like (10:19) you do not have open lines of communication with your boss. (10:23) And don't be afraid to have that conversation (10:24) because you're afraid to lose your job. (10:27) Because honestly, if it's not the right fit, (10:30) you are like ruining your life. (10:33) You're wasting time. (10:33) Staying in a place that's gonna make you (10:36) into somebody you don't want to be. (10:38) Agreed. (10:38) It's so counterproductive. (10:40) It's so draining. (10:41) What do you think would have happened (10:42) had you done that at that culty workplace that you were at? (10:47) Well, when I think back, (10:48) because I do like looking at core values for sure, (10:51) I think theirs were so vague (10:53) that I would have to experience it to know. (10:56) And I think that's another issue. (10:58) And you mentioned that all the time (10:59) as someone who handles business building (11:01) with people all the time. (11:03) Having just very self-worth, integrity. (11:07) Integrity, service, quality. (11:09) That's, yeah, you hear and see that shit all the time. (11:12) So I'm like, of course I align with that. (11:14) But like, what is it really? (11:15) Yeah, what is it really? (11:16) I found out what it was really. (11:18) Yeah, I do. (11:19) I say that all the time. (11:20) That A, you should never have more than like five values (11:23) because I've seen companies have like 10. (11:26) And it's just like, (11:27) you're not gonna find a bunch of people (11:30) that align with all 10 things. (11:31) That's too much. (11:32) So you need to really be clear (11:34) on what your non-negotiables are. (11:36) And they should really be like three. (11:37) And it's like, if everybody at your business (11:39) is totally on the same page about these three things, (11:42) then you can work out the rest. (11:45) But those three things are non-negotiable. (11:47) And same goes for your personal values. (11:49) Like you should know your personal values (11:51) before you go to work anywhere, (11:52) because then how do you know (11:53) if you're misaligned with a workplace (11:54) if you don't know what your personal (11:56) non-negotiables are, right? (11:57) Then the second thing being, (11:58) yeah, don't make them fucking vague. (12:00) Like quality, like no shit, no shit. (12:03) You wanna provide good quality, (12:05) whatever you're doing. (12:06) Like, otherwise you wouldn't be in business. (12:09) Like, you know what I mean? (12:09) Like who wants to create shit product (12:12) or shit service? (12:13) Mid-quality is one of your core values. (12:14) Like quality is the worst, (12:16) but it's just, it's common. (12:17) You do see it as part of, (12:18) they're like, you know, (12:19) we wanna provide the best quality. (12:21) Like, yeah, it would be crazy. (12:22) What's your least favorite core value (12:24) that you've seen like out there (12:26) that like, whether it's vague, (12:27) what's one that you're like, ugh. (12:29) I think quality is just like, (12:31) that's the one. (12:32) Because it's like, it's an, (12:33) yeah, no shit. (12:34) It's like in the brand, (12:36) you'd wanna be doing that regardless. (12:38) What's the alternative of quality? (12:40) Bad quality. (12:41) Like, do you need to say that? (12:43) It should just be evident in the fact (12:44) that I wanna run a business. (12:45) Yeah, if you think you're gonna (12:46) provide shit quality, (12:47) you probably shouldn't be running a business (12:49) or doing whatever you guys are doing, right? (12:51) But anyway, back to the whole vagueness though. (12:54) I think it's really important (12:56) that businesses word their values (12:58) in their cultural language, so to speak. (13:01) Okay. (13:01) So like for us at our company, (13:03) instead of saying transparency, (13:05) we say no bullshit. (13:07) But the reason we say that (13:08) is because that's how we talk. (13:11) People swear all the time. (13:12) We're in an industry where people swear. (13:14) Our customers swear, like literally, (13:15) it's the norm. (13:17) So it feels a little bit more human (13:18) and relatable to the average person (13:20) that's in our industry dealing with stuff. (13:22) And B, it's literally what we expect. (13:25) We expect you not to bullshit ever, (13:28) whether it's with a customer, (13:29) with a vendor, whatever it may be, (13:30) with a staff member, (13:31) don't fucking bullshit. (13:32) Don't sugarcoat it. (13:34) Some places might say transparency, (13:37) but they also in the same hand (13:38) will not let you tell the customer (13:39) what's going on. (13:40) So I come back to like, (13:42) your core values should really come through (13:45) in the same way (13:46) that people speak in your company. (13:48) And then when somebody is potentially being hired (13:50) and they read them, they're like, (13:51) oh, I can relate to that. (13:53) Like that's something I would say (13:54) or that's something my friends would say, (13:55) or you're just like, that's fucking dumb. (13:57) And then, okay, well, (13:58) then this isn't gonna be the right place for you. (14:00) And then you're never in the situation (14:01) where you're like trying to conform (14:03) to your workplace. (14:05) And feel like you're in a cult. (14:08) Let me tell you. (14:09) Did you feel like in the workplace where you were, (14:13) that those rules were like unspoken? (14:17) Like, was it the kind of thing (14:19) where you would say something (14:20) and only then you would find out, (14:22) oh, that doesn't fly here? (14:23) Or was it clearly communicated to you? (14:25) Like, hey, this is what we expect. (14:27) Yeah, and it was definitely like (14:28) after I would say something, I'd find out. (14:31) Like it wasn't communicated from the jump. (14:33) And I was like, oh, but that's like how I talk (14:36) or that's what I say. (14:37) And like, sure, I can audit a bit. (14:39) Like I'm not gonna be like unprofessional (14:41) in the workplace. (14:42) But there were certain things that I found out. (14:43) I'm like, oh, okay, got it. (14:46) And it was very like, oh, so like, (14:49) let's 24 and have a conversation. (14:51) And then go from there, (14:52) just explaining like why all these things (14:55) just don't align with them. (14:56) And it's like, okay, never knew that. (14:59) So it's just, it is, (15:01) it's always like a little hidden. (15:03) Yeah. (15:04) And you find out as time goes on. (15:06) Yeah. (15:06) How they operate, little isms. (15:09) Which I would say that's on the business. (15:12) Like, I don't think that's on you. (15:14) Because I would say if you were hired (15:15) and they clearly said to you at the very beginning, (15:18) we expect you to do X, Y, and Z. (15:20) And then you don't do it. (15:21) And you're like, well, I fucking don't agree. (15:23) It's like, okay, well, you don't agree (15:24) with how they want the business to run. (15:25) But if they never even communicated that to you, (15:27) and then you get in trouble for it, (15:29) but it's like this hidden thing, (15:32) that feels really wrong to me culturally. (15:34) Yeah, I concur. (15:36) On the flip side of that, (15:37) like obviously you've mentioned that, (15:39) like at our company, (15:40) I know you really enjoy the culture, (15:42) but I guess like, (15:43) what is an example of why you feel like (15:45) this culture works differently? (15:48) I feel like, well, A, yeah, (15:50) of course I align with the core values, (15:51) but it's because I can be my own self within them. (15:56) It's not like I'm conforming to it. (15:57) So no bullshit, for example, (15:59) it's like my version of no bullshit. (16:01) So even let's say someone isn't a big fan of swearing. (16:05) Like there's a few people in our company that they don't, (16:07) I've never heard them cuss, ever. (16:09) But they know what it means (16:11) and they have their own version of that. (16:12) And they're transparent. (16:14) They work with us. (16:15) They align all those things. (16:17) So I think it's allowing space for personality (16:20) in a company to like go towards a singular mission together. (16:24) Instead of like, let me take all these people, (16:27) reduce them down to what we want them to be (16:30) for our mission only. (16:32) So I felt like my personality was slowly stripping (16:35) my like autonomy a little bit. (16:37) I'm like, I couldn't be who I was. (16:39) I was censoring and I'm not censored (16:42) where I'm at now at all. (16:44) And if anything, I'm flourishing (16:45) because it's like within the confines of our culture (16:49) and more, I'm exploring who I am, (16:53) what I want to be and like sky's the limit (16:55) because the culture reflects that. (16:57) Whereas like the cult, you stick in the box. (17:00) You don't go outside the box. (17:02) Yeah, you're never go outside the box. (17:04) You're pretty much like punished almost (17:06) for having a different idea. (17:08) Precisely. (17:09) So it was just like, I have no problem (17:11) having my idea shut down, (17:12) but it wasn't because it's like it wouldn't work (17:14) or it's not a good idea. (17:16) Because they're like, well, here, we don't do that. (17:21) We do these things, only these things. (17:23) There's no outside the box. (17:24) Yeah. (17:25) So there was no like development that way. (17:27) Totally. (17:28) So I think if you're in a place (17:29) where you feel like anytime that you bring up (17:31) something different or new, (17:33) even if it doesn't pan out to be the right way to go, (17:36) it should at the very least spark a conversation, (17:39) not end the conversation. (17:41) Yeah, not like result in defensiveness of X culture. (17:44) Yeah, yeah, exactly. (17:47) Do you think that if your quality of work is really good, (17:50) but you're basically like an outcast, (17:53) is that like your problem (17:55) or is that the company's problem? (17:57) Maybe both. (17:57) Because I should like now looking back (18:01) should reflect and recognize enough (18:02) that like I'm just not a fit here. (18:04) Yeah. (18:05) And not like blame externally. (18:08) And like if I know I'm showing up in a way (18:10) that's productive, (18:11) I could be even more productive elsewhere. (18:13) But the company should also know like, (18:16) I should honestly have been even pulled aside. (18:18) Like, hey, like I don't think it's working out. (18:20) Yeah. (18:20) And like just fucking rip the bandaid. (18:22) Yeah, because they did drag it out a little bit. (18:24) Like they wanted me for a season, right? (18:26) Yeah. (18:26) Do you feel like that company presented themselves (18:29) as being like a very open and inclusive workplace? (18:33) Oh my God, yeah. (18:34) Like that's their whole spiel. (18:35) So I think it's interesting that I think a lot of the time (18:37) that the workplaces that push that down your throat (18:40) super hard early on (18:42) and make you believe that that's their culture (18:44) end up being the most toxic ones. (18:46) It's 110%. (18:48) Yeah. (18:48) It's so strange to me. (18:50) Yeah. (18:50) But that's like completely reflective of what happened (18:53) and I'll never forget it. (18:54) I think it's because they think like, (18:56) oh, inclusivity and openness means (18:58) we can never hurt anyone's feelings. (19:01) Yes. (19:01) So that means that everyone must censor themselves (19:04) to the point of nothing you say can ever be out of pocket. (19:08) Yeah. (19:09) Like it's la la land at work vibe. (19:10) But that's not natural though, right? (19:11) And like, it actually breeds more negative feelings. (19:15) Yeah. (19:16) Because you can't express yourself. (19:18) Yeah. (19:18) It was like resentful at a point. (19:20) Yeah. (19:20) Well, of course it's going to become resentful (19:22) because you can't have any real conversations (19:24) because you cannot have a conversation (19:25) that might offend someone or hurt someone's feelings. (19:28) And the reality of life is most of the time (19:31) you're going to hurt someone's feelings. (19:32) Like not because you're trying, (19:34) but just because you can't say shit (19:36) that the whole planet's going to agree with. (19:38) I agree. (19:38) When I'm looking back on how I started to operate, (19:41) like it did affect my day-to-day life. (19:43) Yeah. (19:44) Outside of work. (19:44) I started becoming a different person at work (19:46) to like fit the bill. (19:48) And you do just start drinking the Kool-Aid to make it work. (19:52) So I'm just like, (19:53) I could never go back to doing something like that again. (19:56) And I hope anyone watching this right now, (19:59) if you feel like you're like, (20:00) I'm just doing it just to make it work. (20:02) Like there are other options. (20:04) Yeah. (20:04) Whether you think there are or not. (20:05) Don't waste your fucking time. (20:06) Don't waste your time. (20:07) Stop wasting your life. (20:08) I enjoy work. (20:10) I used to not. (20:11) Well, and that's the other point too is like, (20:13) you should feel like, (20:15) like obviously every job that you start, (20:17) it's a little bit stressful. (20:18) You're going through the like learning curve (20:20) of being in a new environment, (20:22) meeting new people, you know, first impressions. (20:25) But then once you get a little bit more comfortable, (20:27) it should really be a relief of like, (20:29) oh my God, I found my people. (20:31) Yeah. (20:31) Like I love these people. (20:32) Like I can openly like converse with them. (20:35) They understand my jokes. (20:36) Like they don't get offended at me. (20:38) Like they're like, they care about me. (20:41) They check in on, like, so it's just, (20:44) if you're not experiencing that, (20:46) then you're not in the right place for you. (20:50) And I think like, (20:51) don't be afraid to look for something like that (20:55) because I truly believe (20:56) there's so many different companies out there. (20:57) There's so many different cultures (20:58) and you will find a place where you do fit in. (21:01) And there's no point of forcing yourself to suffer. (21:05) Yeah. (21:05) And try and make it work somewhere (21:07) where you're just immediately like, (21:09) this is not my place. (21:11) Well, I'm also, I was trying to even rack my brain (21:14) on like what things like to look for when it comes. (21:18) Oh, like a red flag. (21:19) Like red flags. (21:20) Like are there, like, are there things? (21:21) Well, there is this little checklist that we pulled up. (21:24) This is an actual list that psychologists use (21:26) to spot a cult. (21:28) The reality is most companies are probably (21:29) gonna hit one or two points on this list (21:31) because like they need to run a business. (21:33) Yeah. (21:34) There has to be some sort of guideline. (21:35) Yeah. Culture and cult difference. (21:37) Yeah. But if it's like out of these eight things, (21:40) you hit seven boxes, (21:41) then you're probably working in a cult. (21:45) So the first thing is that the company (21:48) is gonna try to control the conversation. (21:50) And if you have a different opinion, (21:51) then it's just gonna get brushed off. (21:55) So it's not gonna be respected whatsoever. (21:57) Okay. (21:58) They act like they're more than just a job. (22:00) They'll be like, we're a family. (22:03) Oh God, like the guilt trip of that. (22:05) Yeah. I think like, (22:07) obviously a lot of workplaces are like a family (22:10) and there's actually nothing wrong with that (22:12) because you spend so much time with people at work (22:14) that I think sometimes you spend more time with them (22:16) than you do with your own family, (22:17) which is why you need to make sure you find the right ones. (22:20) But back to this point of, (22:23) I think they'll push a lot of this narrative of like, (22:25) you're a part of this family. (22:29) Yeah. And they're kind of gonna like (22:30) force it down your throat (22:31) rather than you just genuinely feeling like, (22:33) this is my family, like outside my family. (22:35) I can already think of a few corporations like that. (22:38) Number three is you're never quite pure enough. (22:40) So you're always kind of feeling like (22:42) you're one wrong opinion from being like suspect. (22:46) Oh, fuck. Yeah. (22:47) You know, like the next thing you say could be the thing. (22:50) You're like, is that the line I'm crossing? (22:52) Yeah. Yeah. You're like tiptoeing. (22:54) Okay. (22:55) They want your whole self, (22:57) but then they're gonna use it against you. (22:58) So like you said, with your personality tests. (23:00) Yep. (23:00) Like, okay, you guys are getting my personality tests (23:03) to know how to work with me, (23:04) but then you're using it against me. (23:06) Yeah. To know how to work me. (23:07) Yeah. Like, no thanks. (23:09) You're using it against me once you realize (23:10) you can't manipulate me based on my personality type. (23:13) Yeah. Which is fucking psychotic. (23:14) Yeah. (23:14) Number five is that their values can't be questioned. (23:18) And if you disagree with them, (23:19) it means that there's something wrong with you. (23:22) And I think the way that this would show up in a workplace, (23:24) cause I don't necessarily agree. (23:26) Like if core values were presented to you (23:28) at the very hiring stage. (23:30) How the fuck are you one to question them later on? (23:33) Cause you knew about them. (23:34) However, I do think it's totally fair to say like, (23:36) well, I don't exactly agree with the wording of this (23:39) and like, what does it mean? (23:40) And they shouldn't get defensive. (23:42) They should be able to explain to you (23:43) exactly what they mean by anything that they're trying to. (23:46) And you should feel good by the end of the conversation. (23:48) Like, oh, I have clarity now. (23:49) Yeah. It shouldn't feel like there's something wrong with you (23:52) because you don't agree. (23:54) Yeah. (23:54) So, and then like new ideas will just end conversations (23:57) instead of opening them. (23:58) So if you're saying something outside the norm, (24:01) it's just like, well, no. (24:02) Not here. (24:03) Yeah. Not here. (24:04) Shut the fuck up. (24:04) Yeah. Shut up, bitch. (24:07) Your belief system matters more (24:08) than your actual quality of work. (24:11) Crazy. I've seen that happen. (24:13) Yeah. (24:13) And it's just like wild to watch in real time. (24:16) They decide who belongs. (24:18) And if you leave, then somehow you failed them. (24:21) So you're kind of guilt tripped for leaving (24:25) or not aligning. (24:28) When there's nothing wrong with it. (24:29) Like you said. (24:31) Okay. Well, I feel like mine checked all eight. (24:34) Yeah. So I guess that's a pretty good like way (24:36) to kind of mentally run through like, (24:38) am I crazy or is where I'm working just toxic? (24:41) Exactly. (24:42) Yeah. (24:42) A fucking cult. (24:44) I think the biggest thing that I wanted to determine today (24:46) was like whether cult is even a factor (24:49) or if it's just you don't align with a culture. (24:52) Yeah. (24:52) So that kind of helped me check the boxes a little bit (24:54) in my head. (24:55) Like, yeah, it was a fucking cult. (24:57) Yeah. (24:57) But I think majority of the time I will say (24:59) it's definitely like you're just not aligning (25:01) with the culture. (25:02) So just like move on. (25:03) And I think that's a great question to ask (25:05) because as much as you're being interviewed (25:07) for a place of work, you're interviewing them too. (25:09) You want to know who you're working for. (25:11) Yeah. (25:11) So you're allowed to be like, hey, what does this mean? (25:14) What is the culture? (25:15) Ask these questions and see if you align (25:17) before you move forward. (25:18) Yeah. Totally. I agree. (25:19) And I think this goes not only for like (25:21) if you're an employee, but also if you're somebody (25:24) that's bringing on new customers on board, (25:27) making sure you guys are on the same page (25:29) about the expectations, how we operate, how we speak. (25:32) Because if a customer is then going to be upset with you (25:34) and now you're dealing with this whole disaster later on, (25:36) it's really just vetting. (25:38) Yeah. (25:38) Vendors. (25:39) Like we vet our vendors as well. (25:41) Like this is how we operate. (25:43) Do you read me? (25:44) Yeah. Exactly. 10-4. (25:45) Yeah. So yeah. (25:47) No, it's super important. (25:48) I think alignment, it's a huge thing. (25:50) I think. (25:51) Alignment of values. (25:52) Okay. Well, should we wrap up? (25:55) We absolutely should. (25:56) That was good. Honestly. (25:57) I think a lot of people need to know (25:59) whether they're in a cult or not. (26:02) Well, hopefully you got what you (26:04) fucking were looking for here today and... (26:06) Find somewhere that aligns. (26:07) It's really fun when you do. (26:09) Yeah. Okay, you hoes. (26:11) I guess it's time for us to go. (26:13) Thank you so much for listening and watching (26:15) and we will see you next Friday. (26:17) Bye. (26:26) Bye.
